Episodes of The Sport Clips Haircuts Hall of Fame Podcast - Veronica Jordan

This episode, the next one in our "Survive and Advance" series, is with Veronica Jordan, the manager of the Sport Clips Haircuts of Oregon City. Veronica is a renowned fashion designer whose custom made Sport Clips themed dress stole the show at the 2019 Annual Convention. More importantly, Veronica is a single mom and a survivor of drug addiction, homelessness and domestic violence. In this interview, Veronica details how she escaped an abusive marriage, overcame a debilitating drug addiction and successfully raises her three children. Domestic Violence, or Intimate Partner Violence (IPV), drastically impacts more than 12 million women and men each year in the United States. Sport Clips offers the Cut It Out training as part of new Team Member Orientation for every store Team Member. The goal is to create awareness so Team Members can recognize the signs of intimate partner violence (IPV) and refer others to help by 1-800-799-7233.

Chad Jordan in a Sport Clips Jacket and Veronica Jordan holding a microphone .   Chad Jordan in a Sport Clips Jacket and Veronica Jordan holding a microphone laughing

Episode Air Date Guest Name Guest Title Topic(s)
December 4, 2019 Veronica Jordan Manager Escaping domestic abuse / intimate partner violence and addiction

Each episode of the Podcast is also available on iTunes and the Google Play store. 

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Chad Jordan: Hey everybody, this is Chad Jordan from Sport Clips. This is another edition of our Hall of Fame podcast. Hello if you're watching this on YouTube. You could probably tell in my voice that I've had a ton of Mountain Dew today. It's been one of the highlight days for me here at Sport Clips. I am in the lovely Portland, Oregon area, and I've been visiting stores all day, so I'm hyped up, not just because of the energy that I get from these store visits, but all the Mountain Dew that has been presented throughout the course of the day, and even Mountain Dew brownies that we had today. Plenty of Krispy Kreme doughnuts, so if you feel like sugar rush flowing through the microphone today, that is legitimate. Hopefully there's not a sugar crash by the end of this, so we'll see.

Chad Jordan: But the whole reason, I don't even know if you know this, the whole reason I came to Portland was for you, so I had to get here to see this young lady. Those that were at Huddle in 2019 are going to, when you see here, recognize her. I don't know if we gave you the microphone. I don't think I trusted you enough back then to give you a microphone, but we definitely brought you on stage, and we want to hear your story. You guys are in for a treat because of that she brings to the table, so without further ado, why don't have you say your first and very important last name, and the story you manage, how long you've been with Sport Clips. Give me some of that stuff. So you are who?

Veronica Jordan: I am Veronica Jordan.

Chad Jordan: Jordan. No relation.

Veronica Jordan: No relation.

Chad Jordan: Actually, we don't know that.

Veronica Jordan: That's true.

Chad Jordan: I'm sure if we did a family tree thing, we may be related. Who knows?

Veronica Jordan: The way technology ... it is, you never know. I work at OR101, it was the first store in Oregon.

Chad Jordan: It's Oregon City.

Veronica Jordan: In Oregon City, Oregon.

Chad Jordan: Beautiful location.

Veronica Jordan: End of the Oregon Trail.

Chad Jordan: It is unbelievable, the amount of sunlight that you guys ... and this is a cloudy area usually, but the sunlight that was coming in your store, everywhere I turn there's a window bringing sun in. It's a beautiful location.

Veronica Jordan: Our store is literally like a big fishbowl.

Chad Jordan: It's amazing. How long have you been there? How long have you been with Sport Clips?

Veronica Jordan: I've been with Sport Clips for almost five years.

Chad Jordan: Okay and you're managing that location.

Veronica Jordan: I am.

Chad Jordan: How long you been doing that?

Veronica Jordan: I have been manager since last January.

Chad Jordan: Okay. Also, you're with the ambassador program.

Veronica Jordan: I am.

Chad Jordan: Yes.

Veronica Jordan: Yup.

Chad Jordan: When did you start that, and how is that going? Give me a feel for the ambassador program here.

Veronica Jordan: Let's see. Started doing ambassador probably about six ago, five, six months ago. It's going really good. I've had the gracious opportunity to go into a couple of schools with my coaches, [Malory 00:02:49] and Emily, and just spread the Sport Clips word, get people on board, give them some education, what we're all about. I got to teach a beard class, which was really nerve-racking, but everyone says I didn't look like it was nerve-racking, so I guess I did okay.

Chad Jordan: You pulled it off.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah [crosstalk 00:03:05].

Chad Jordan: You channeled your inner Britney Fitzgerald.

Veronica Jordan: I did. I did.

Chad Jordan: Your hero. One of the things I love, as I was visiting the stores today, the ambassador program, not that we're going to dive too much into that right now, but it's doing wonders. One of the managers that I met today at OR 117, McMinnon or somewhere-

Veronica Jordan: McMinnville.

Chad Jordan: Okay. Thank you. Her name is ... what was her name? Ashley, thank you little voice from off camera. Ashley, she came out of beauty school, right into Sport Clips, and she came because an ambassador, [Courtney 00:03:49], had come in and given a presentation, and it stuck with her, and now she's managing, but six months after joining Sport Clips. So on behalf of those of us at Sport Clips, especially headquarters, I want to thank you. You're not the only ambassador but you are one, an important one, and so I hope you hear it enough from your team leader and from your team members and everybody else, your coaches, but thank you guys so much. You're making a difference. I love it.

Chad Jordan: I love the ambassador program, Mary Burlingame, and everything that's going on, so thank you for that. Now why oh why did I come? You're going to have to explain ... we'll tell the story together, but why out of all the places in the country, why did I have to come to OR 101? What was drawing me there? What is it about you that is just so special?

Veronica Jordan: Oh, boy.

Chad Jordan: I know it's going to be touch to pick just one, but ...

Veronica Jordan: Well I made you a jacket. That's probably the biggest one.

Chad Jordan: Yes. Those on YouTube, I hope you're watching this on YouTube, you can see the jacket that was just a bomber jacket. If you're listening on the podcast, don't worry. We'll post a picture with me in the jacket for the podcast, but by the way, it's so warm. I'm going to Denver tomorrow where it's snowing, this thing ... I'm sweating, but I'm not taking ... I said I would sleep in this. I'm not taking this off because it is so dog gone comfortable and lovely. You have this amazing talent to be able to ... I'd call you the fashion designer of Sport Clips, where we discovered you at ... was that your first Huddle?

Veronica Jordan: That was my first Huddle.

Chad Jordan: Okay, so you at Huddle, and we did ... for those that don't ... maybe you're a team member or stylist, and you're not a manager who's been to Huddle yet, but Huddle's our Sport Clips convention, and at the end, the last night we have an awards banquet. I mean you dress up to the nines. I mean guys wear tuxedos and gals, the fanciest dresses, and the shoes, and the purses, and the jewelry, everything I perfect. I've been going ... this is probably my eighth or ninth Huddle, I've never seen someone walk in, looking as Sport Clipsy, I'll put it that way, Sport Clips-beautiful as you did. We actually for the first time this year, we had a red carpet event where we hosted ... you could get pictures with Gordon and so everybody was coming and getting pictures with him and you showed up. Tell me about the dress. I almost feel like ... you ever see the Hunger Games?

Veronica Jordan: Yes.

Chad Jordan: And then they're interviewing the tributes and all that stuff, and they're, "Tell me about your dress," that's what I feel like right now, not that we're going to throw you to the wolves or have you battle it out to the death after this, but tell me a little bit about that Sport Clips dress, where it came from, what the inspiration was. And I probably won't reference this on the podcast page at all. I'll show a picture of it, but me a little bit about that.

Veronica Jordan: Sure. So I guess the first thing that comes to mind for me is ... Debora Sawyer if you're listening, I drank the Sport Clips Kool-Aid a long time ago.

Chad Jordan: Debora Sawyer, you better be listening. I'm going to give you a ring after this podcast to make sure.

Veronica Jordan: I really fell in love with this company. I collect a lot of old Sport Clips memorabilia. I find a lot of neat ways to reinvent some of the things. Some of the pins we've gotten, I made into earrings.

Chad Jordan: You have Sport Clips shoelaces right now, so yes.

Veronica Jordan: I do have Sport Clips shoelaces.

Chad Jordan: You're telling the truth.

Veronica Jordan: My team leaders, when we talked about this red carpet event, and I said, "What do people where," and they said, "Well it's kind of like a ... it's a really formal thing," and I said, "Like a prom dress?" And they said, "Yeah." I looked everywhere for a dress, and I'm kind of a weird size, and I thought you know what? I'll just make one. I was-

Chad Jordan: Is that how we describe people like me and you? Are we weird sized-people?

Veronica Jordan: Just a weird sized-people. Really short, little torso.

Chad Jordan: All right. I didn't know we were weird-sized. All right.

Veronica Jordan: So I started just looking around. Couldn't find anything. My mom sews. She made my wedding dress. I had made a couple of my daughter's formal dresses, and I just went, "You know what? I'm just going to make one." I had already been doing a couple other things. I've made some hair scrunchies, and I had done a couple other things with some things I had boughten off of the mini store, and the Sport Clips supply websites, so I decided I was just going to make a Sport Clips dress. It was my first Huddle. I wanted to make an impression. Go big or go home, so I got the infinity scarves that were on the mini store, and I bought them. I bought three of them, and I took them all apart.

Veronica Jordan: I'm a big let's make something out of nothing, so I went down and I just found the right color red dress at the thrift store, and I took it all apart into pieces, and then I reassembled with the pieces that I wanted with the Sport Clips, and the red dress, and bought some gloves and some jewelry on eBay, and boom.

Chad Jordan: It was breathtaking, so I know when people see this picture, they're going to be blown away. The thing that made the night ... I mean I remember meeting you, I was helping people ... get them through the line to see Gordon. I tried to jump in as many pictures as I could and photo-bomb. So I remember meeting you in line and talking about, "Oh my gosh, that dress. It's incredible." Not thinking anything of it, but after that, but thinking all right, this is probably the last time I'll see her tonight. Well what we were doing to get people through the line, so now I got to tell my side of story and we'll finish, to get people through the line is, Gordon had said ... Hey, let me do my Gordon impression. "Hey Chad. We got to hurry this line up and get people through, because we're going to have dinner soon. And so if you could take their purses, and just hold them while they come through the line, and give them their purses back, that would really help us out."

Chad Jordan: All right, so now I got my mission from Gordon. Why you guys come, I'm taking your purses, your phones, I'm holding on, then when you leave, I'm supposed to give them back to you. All right, well around this time ... I'm going to blank on her name too, but-

Veronica Jordan: [Jordan 00:10:18].

Chad Jordan: Jordan. That's right.

Veronica Jordan: Jordan was right in front of me.

Chad Jordan: It was the craziest coincidence. Jordan from ... I believe she's in Iowa.

Veronica Jordan: I think so.

Chad Jordan: Yeah. Another manager, a beautiful manger. She comes in for this very fancy picture with Gordon. I take her phone and purse, right around the same time I take your phone and purse, and then I go give you yours. I'm so blown away by your dress. I hand you your stuff. Now it's Jordan's turn to get her picture. Well you go off and your taking pictures with your team leader, and your friends, and all that kind of stuff. Jordan comes, and then goes and waits at the end of the line while her friends get their pictures, and then I give her friends their stuff back. She's waiting for hers, and waits and waits, thinking I was too busy. Finally, about 5 or 10 minutes later, she comes to me, she says, "Hey, could I have my phone back?"

Chad Jordan: At this point, I mean you know how many phones I've probably passed through that point. I'm like, "Well where is it?" And I go to look for it, I can't find it any ... Now, we can't you. We can't even remember who was in front of her, so we start ... About half an hour goes by, she doesn't ... you know how important that somebody's phone is.

Veronica Jordan: Oh yeah, man it's your lifeline nowadays.

Chad Jordan: She starts naturally and rightfully ... Jordan, if you're listening to this, you had every right to panic, because I had fully lost your phone. I blew it. But we go through the art ... We had a professional photographer. We have Neil Geiger as our Sport Clips photographer, and he had been taking pictures of Gordon, so we ask him, "Hey, can you go back through your timeline? We need to scroll and try and target whoever was around her." We could not find who it was, so I then start going through ... now that everybody's inside eating. They start having dinner, and I'm going from table to table, "Hey, have you seen ... Can you check your purse? Do you have a phone that's not yours? Can you check your table?" For the next hour of the awards banquet as people are eating, we're looking for this phone.

Chad Jordan: Well I didn't have a very big part, not that I'm bitter, a very big part of the awards banquet ceremony the last year. I think the year before everybody got sick of me, so they're like, "Let's cut this guy out." But there was one thing that I had to do at the awards banquet with Whitney Reid, who usually, if she does a karaoke video with me, or something like that, she's usually my partner in crime. So we had to go present, and when I get backstage, she's like, "What's wrong with you?" She sees it on my face. I'm like, "I've blown it. I've lost this gal's phone, Jordan. I never met her before tonight, but I'm sure she hates my guts right now, and I think she's probably crying her eyes out because I have blown it. I cannot find her phone." And Whitney's like, "Oh don't worry. I'm sure it will turn up. Why don't you make an announcement?"

Chad Jordan: I'm like, "Make an announcement? There's 4000 people here. What am I going to say? 'Guys I blew it. I've lost somebody's phone.'" She's like, "I just think you should do it." So we go there to read off ... to start doing this awards banquet thing, and I'm like, "Before we get started, I made a big mistake tonight. Can you do me a favor and," what'd I say? "Check your purse and see if there's a phone in there that isn't ... " because I think she had turned the ringer off because it was going to be ... So we had tried calling the phone. We'd tried everything like the find my iPhone, all that stuff. "Could you check your purse to see ... " Was it in your purse? Is that where it ... So what happened?

Veronica Jordan: So I didn't take my phone up to get pictures taken with Gordon, because that was the like of everybody who had done the karaoke.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, that's right.

Veronica Jordan: So I didn't take my phone, I just took my purse, so you had tucked Jordan's phone, you'd put it down, and then you'd put my wallet, my purse, on top of it, and it was about the same size.

Chad Jordan: Sandwiched it. Yup.

Veronica Jordan: When you handed it back to me. I was so used to carrying my phone, I really thought it was mine. I came to my table, I sat down, and it was just sitting right underneath, and when you said that, I had just started looking around, going, "Oh, well maybe it got left here," and then somebody goes, "Whose phone is that?" I was like, "That's not my phone." Then you said whose name it was, and I had met her when I was standing in line.

Chad Jordan: No way. Because you were like, "Hey, your first name's Jordan, my last name's Jordan."

Veronica Jordan: My last name's Jordan, right, that's ... so I had already met her, and so when you said something, and then when it clicked, then I went, "Oh she was right behind me, or in front of me." Then I tried to go over there, and they were like, "No, no, no," and then they were like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, wait, wait, come back."

Chad Jordan: I haven't had many highlights at Sport Clips because usually, I'm art of the lowlight stuff. That was one of the highest moments of my life at Sport Clips, because we found this phone, this connection with Jordan, her first name, your last name, you wearing the Sport Clips dress, us having it ... and so yes, we brought you guys on stage. Plus, I wanted to show off now this opportunity of 4000 people to see this wonderful Sport Clips dress, so we have an image, a picture that was taken that night that is ... I've used it as my profile picture. A lot of videos that I produce, I'll put that picture in there.

Chad Jordan: You are center point of that, and so because of that, I was like, "Okay, I owe you a visit ... " Jordan, if you're listening to this, I know I owe you a visit too, okay. Just keep your phone away from me when I come to your store. But the things that you're doing, I know that you had a lot of people contact you about, "Can you please make us a dress." You simply don't have enough time for all of that, right? I mean you're ...

Veronica Jordan: I just ...

Chad Jordan: I know, but I so appreciate what you've done with this, this bomber jacket that I've got. Literally it's probably my most favorite Sport Clips possession of all time.

Veronica Jordan: I only get to really take probably half, maybe a little bit more than half the credit, because again, I'm a salvager, right-

Chad Jordan: Yeah. No, but the idea.

Veronica Jordan: I got it at Goodwill as a bomber jacket. I took it all apart. I ordered the fabric from a local company here in Oregon City, and then I took it all apart. I cut the pieces to fit, and then I sewed it back together.

Chad Jordan: Okay. All of that gave me a headache, just thinking about ... so you need to take all the credit. This is phenomenal. So all that to say is, she's not taking requests right now. She is managing. She's an ambassador.

Veronica Jordan: Her kids.

Chad Jordan: She has three kids. So let's do this, because your story's so cool, and because I just took the first 15 minutes of the podcast to describe how we know each other and why we have such a fun connection, let's unpack your story a little bit. You're a stylist. You're a manager, all that kind of stuff. How far back should we go? You're a little girl and all that, or you're an adult and what?

Veronica Jordan: Oh I don't know. We can start with adult, I guess.

Chad Jordan: Okay. So let's go through your ... what are some challenges that you've overcome in the last 15, 20 years?

Veronica Jordan: Well I am a recovering drug addict.

Chad Jordan: Okay. That's a big one that's you've overcome, yeah.

Veronica Jordan: That's a big one. That's a big one.

Chad Jordan: I think that's worth-while.

Veronica Jordan: I would say I work on it every day. It's definitely a day at a time situation.

Chad Jordan: Have you gone through a program, or is there a church ... what is that helped you get sober and is keeping you there?

Veronica Jordan: Sure. Well let's see. Let's just back up. Let's go back about 2010, maybe.

Chad Jordan: Okay. 2010 you're a mom ...

Veronica Jordan: 2010 I'm a mom.

Chad Jordan: ... of two of your three kids?

Veronica Jordan: Two of my three kids. I worked and lived in Lincoln City which is-

Chad Jordan: Is that here in Oregon?

Veronica Jordan: ... here on the Oregon coast. I had a boyfriend at the time, he was a long-standing boyfriend, who had really struggled with addition.

Chad Jordan: Had it ever been anything you'd dabbled with?

Veronica Jordan: No. We'd been together for probably five or six years of me ... him falling and me being understanding, and just really getting stuck in that circle of codependency, and just me telling myself it was okay because I loved him.

Chad Jordan: Okay that he was going through this? Okay.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. And probably I'd moved out to the coast to get away from him. He got clean, he came back in my life, and then he fell off again, and I think I finally just got fed up with it, and I said, "I guess if you can't beat him, then you join him." It was probably ... I don't want to say, "Probably," it was one of the worst mistakes of my life.

Chad Jordan: So was it a bullet train, like one of these things that just took off, or was it a slow burn?

Veronica Jordan: Ooh. I would say it was a bullet train that turned into a slow burn.

Chad Jordan: Because you had custody of your kids at the time?

Veronica Jordan: Yup, I had-

Chad Jordan: Okay, and what were you doing profession-wise?

Veronica Jordan: Profession-wise?

Chad Jordan: Yeah.

Veronica Jordan: I owned my own salon.

Chad Jordan: All right, so you were already a stylist, by trade.

Veronica Jordan: Yup. I had a house. I had my two kids.

Chad Jordan: So you're doing full-service.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah.

Chad Jordan: You're doing women's hair. Okay.

Veronica Jordan: Full-service, cars, everything. Just everything you hope and wish for when you're a little kid, like, "I want to do all this stuff, and be all this stuff." I had dabbled and then I stopped, and then I got pregnant, and I continued to stay clean through my pregnancy. He stayed clean through my pregnancy, which was amazing.

Chad Jordan: Is it because you're ... for the baby?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah.

Chad Jordan: Both of you are saying this is the wake up call that you needed, and never again, all right.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. Right. So we had my son, couple months later, we got married. We had a beautiful wedding on the beach.

Chad Jordan: Who made the dress?

Veronica Jordan: I bought it at Goodwill.

Chad Jordan: Oh, okay. All right. All right.

Veronica Jordan: But we did make all the decorations. Probably about three or four months after my son was born, my ex-husband, we're divorced now, he was a really big health-nut too. It's a really weird oxymoron. He was a MMA fighter and just really had a crippling addiction. It got to the point where he started having an affair. He told me at the time that it was because I had gotten too fat, and I wasn't taking care of myself, which for me, there was that part of me in my brain, that went, "You just had a baby. Does it really matter?" Then there was that other part of me, that little girl who's just self-doubt, thinking there's really something just wrong with me, being afraid to lose everything that I have. So at that point in time, when my son was about three or four months old, I started using again. We probably just was smoking meth for, oh six to nine months, and I was probably really able to hold onto things-

Chad Jordan: Is your husband still, now ex-husband, still in the picture at this point, or he's long-gone?

Veronica Jordan: He's still in his addiction, unfortunately.

Chad Jordan: Okay, well, I mean when you reenter.

Veronica Jordan: Oh, no, he's there with me.

Chad Jordan: Okay, so you've taken him back essentially-

Veronica Jordan: Yeah.

Chad Jordan: ... even though he's slipped up.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. We basically just decided that it was what ... I was going to forgive him. In my mind, I think, back then it was one of those things where I was like, "This is what I'm going to do to be on another level with him, so that he doesn't leave me." So of course with, and I don't know if you know much about drug addiction, and I know a lot of people-

Chad Jordan: Not as much as-

Veronica Jordan: Not a lot of people do, but some people that do, for anybody that's listening, you know that when you involve any hardcore drugs and lack of sleep, emotions get very mixed, and so abuse became a regular part of my life.

Chad Jordan: Had it ever been something in your history? Either growing up or ...

Chad Jordan: Never where you felt threatened or for fear for your physical safety.

Veronica Jordan: Right. And my parents were never like that. My parents are great.

Chad Jordan: So when the physical stuff happens, are you so out of it that you're like, "This can be the new normal. I can live with this. I can accept this"?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. That's a lot of what it was, and I didn't want to ... when we talked about getting back together before he moved down, when I moved at the coast, I said one thing to him, and that was, "Please don't ruin my paradise," because it was my opportunity to start over. At that part, I had worked at McDonald's for 15 years. I was an area manager for McDonald's. I went to school, got my beauty school, and got this great career and everything else, and I was like, "Just don't ruin my paradise." I think I got really in a deep depression going, "Well my paradise is ruined now, so what does it matter?" Things started to show. One of the really common things with methamphetamine use is weight loss, and then really erratic behavior and so I started to get really skinny, and I started to really flake out on a lot of things.

Chad Jordan: How does that work, in terms of ... There are some high-functioning individuals that somehow ... I don't know. How does that work? When you have this addiction, and you still have responsibilities in your life, you obviously got to choose one over the other. How can you pull it of for a little while, and then it eventually catches up with you? Can you walk me through, what is that tightrope walk like?

Veronica Jordan: It's like 1 is too many and 1000 is never enough, right, is really what comes to mind. In the beginning, it feels more like a means to an end. You go to work and you make money so you can buy the drugs. For a long time, that's really what it was. I went to work, and I made money so that I could buy the drugs. Go to work, make money, buy the drugs. It was a never-ending cycle.

Chad Jordan: Do you feel, while you're working, like my quality wasn't as good as it used to be? Or no, I'm pulling this off, I can do it.

Veronica Jordan: No, no. You feel like you're pulling it off. You feel like nobody knows and you're just fine.

Chad Jordan: You're delusional.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. Pretty much. You really put yourself in this little bubble of psychosis where you think nobody notices, and everything's fine.

Chad Jordan: Did you find out after the fact that people were like, "Yeah, no, we noticed and we-"

Veronica Jordan: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Being in recovery too, I've had lots of sponsees now, and watching some of them, and some of their behaviors, and it's like, "Listen, let's have a conversation, because I've so been there. You're not being honest." I even remember having a conversation with my mom when I was probably about a year and a half into my addiction, and just really, truly believing that I convinced my mom that everything was fine, and I wasn't on any drugs. So it came to a head with my husband, when my son was just a little under a year old. We got in a pretty bad fight, and he blacked out after the third punch, but he beat me for over an hour and a half.

Chad Jordan: Oh my gosh. Okay. So blacked out because he doesn't remember, but he physically was obviously still around and he didn't pass out.

Veronica Jordan: No, he didn't pass out, he just blacked out.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, yeah. Understood.

Veronica Jordan: He had gotten really escalated to the point where he was shooting dope, and he was taking steroids. He was pretty nuts.

Chad Jordan: Oh my gosh. Now, at this point, are you hight enough to the point where you're not even cognizant this is really happening and feeling it? Is that's what's going on?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. For the most part. I mean I remember it all. I remember when he came to, I mean there was blood everywhere. He knew what he had done, but he didn't really accept what he'd done. Really, I remember him handing out youngest son, [Jayden 00:27:51], who was just under a year at the time, because he was present for the whole thing, and I remember him coming over and handing him to me, and telling me that I needed to leave. That it wasn't safe for me. I remember just putting him in the car, and we dove over to my friend's house ... or his sister's house, because she had my kids, and I will never forget the look on ... it was actually my sister-in-law, on her face. She looked at me. She had to double take, because I was unrecognizable. That was really the first time I want, "Okay. Enough is enough."

Chad Jordan: Where were your older kids at the time?

Veronica Jordan: My daughter was there ... or she was at my sister-in-law's house, and my son, at that point in time, I think he was visiting his dad.

Chad Jordan: So Jayden was the only one that was in the house when the attack was happening.

Veronica Jordan: Right. Two weeks later, here's my wonderful codependency, we got back together even after all that.

Chad Jordan: So help me out. Help me understand. I just interviewed somebody else who had been in a abusive relationship. What's the thought process? What's the inner dialogue that's happening, that says, "I can forgive him this time. It's going to happen ... " What's going on?

Veronica Jordan: He loves me. He doesn't mean it.

Chad Jordan: It's the drugs.

Veronica Jordan: It's the drugs.

Chad Jordan: It's not him.

Veronica Jordan: He says he's not going to do it this time. He's going to get help. If I'm just nicer. Don't follow the dragon into the cave if you don't want to get burned. All those things that we ... whether we're a man or a woman, because I've known men who've been in abusive situations too, right. We all have these things that we tell ourselves to justify it or make it okay. What I've learned from my own self is that it's not, and it really has something more to do with me, not somebody else, right.

Chad Jordan: Well even that phrase you just used, which I had never heard before, "Don't follow the dragon into the cave if you don't want to get burned," I mean is that a self-perpetuating, "It's my fault. I've set myself up to ... and now if I do better to not create those circumstances, then the abuse won't happen"?

Veronica Jordan: Right. It'll be fine if we're both using, and he might get mad at me, but you know what? If I don't say something about something, then I won't get beat, but the reality is, it has nothing to do with me if he's going to go off, or I'm going to go off, or whatever. I mean it was not uncommon for us to stay up for two or three weeks at a time, and that'll make you pretty bonkers. So anyway, we got back together, and I think it was a week later, and I just told him to get out. He left. He went to Portland.

Chad Jordan: What kind of record did he have at the time, where ...

Veronica Jordan: Yeah, he had already been to prison once.

Chad Jordan: So yeah, so I mean you report him, and he gets tried, he's probably looking at more time, right, so what prevents you from going to the police all these times? Because you're so trapped in the addiction yourself? You're like, "If I do it, then I'm in trouble."

Veronica Jordan: Yup. I'm still using, so if I go and report him, then I'm going to get in trouble, and so I decided that I would not. I decided instead that I would just try to escape my own pain more, because despite all of it, regardless, I was still so madly in love with him that it hurt. So I made the choice to step up my drug use game, and started using intravenously.

Chad Jordan: Which at to that point, you had never ...

Veronica Jordan: I had never done it that way before.

Chad Jordan: And the whole decision to step up, your words, was that so that you'd be on a level with him and maybe be accepted?

Veronica Jordan: I just wanted the pain to go away.

Chad Jordan: And it be quicker and easier and-

Veronica Jordan: At the time, the amount of circle and the friends that I had been keeping, they all did it that way, and it was pretty well-said, "It's the only way the get completely numb." I don't like to say it a lot, but it's right. You go numb. You do not care. You do not feel. The only thing you care about is your next high. Everything that I had high-functioning or maintaining until then, I lost it literally, in three months, once I started doing it that way.

Chad Jordan: Because you literally couldn't keep it together at that point?

Veronica Jordan: Right. I couldn't keep it together, and I mean and it got to ... I lost my son, my middle child. His dad took him. Rightfully so.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, I was going to say, do you blame him?

Veronica Jordan: Rightfully so. No, I don't blame him at all. I knew that things were going south, really bad.

Chad Jordan: Have you ever been arrested yet, yourself?

Veronica Jordan: Nope. I knew things were going bad and really south, and I really, really wanted to move, and get out of there, and move back home, so I sent my daughter to go live with her grandma on her dad's side. Told her I'd be up there in two weeks, that I was backing my stuff, and I never left. My youngest-

Chad Jordan: How old was your daughter at that time? Maybe-

Veronica Jordan: 10.

Chad Jordan: 10 or 11.

Veronica Jordan: 10.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, okay, so old enough to know.

Veronica Jordan: Old enough to know.

Chad Jordan: To figure out mom's not got it together.

Veronica Jordan: Something's not right, yep. I think up until this point, it wasn't necessarily ... I'm sure my daughter ... talking to her now about it later, she had an inkling that something was wrong, but me and, oddly enough, my ex-husband's name is Jordan. I know.

Chad Jordan: What?

Veronica Jordan: I know. Me and Jordan, we'd been together for, I think, going on seven years at that point, and our relationship had never been something of harmonious peace. It had always been some type of drama, mainly because he was going in and out of addiction, she he was going in and out of relationships, and in and out of ... so my kids were very used to it being a very traumatic interaction, and so this was just one more thing. I don't think that they completely comprehended at that point, although all the adults did. My son, my youngest Jayden, he stayed with me.

Chad Jordan: I assume your mom, at this point, is looking over your shoulder every ...

Veronica Jordan: My mom lived in Oregon City, and I lived in Lincoln City, two hours away so-

Chad Jordan: Okay, so she can't be as present as-

Veronica Jordan: And I pretty much, as you do when you start using, you start building these barriers, and exing people out of really being ... I stopped being on Facebook. I have a couple pictures of me from my addiction when I was on Facebook, but I really stopped talking to a lot of my family, and that's that shame, because you know, half of it is you don't want people to tell you, "No." You don't want people to tell you, "Stop." The reality is, for most addicts, is that you don't stop until you're ready to, and that's just what it is.

Chad Jordan: Because you had mentioned that it literally took three months for everything to unravel, so I assume, at this point, the salon is-

Veronica Jordan: Gone.

Chad Jordan: Yup, okay.

Veronica Jordan: I just decided ... I kept taking days off, and closing it, and closing it, and kept taking days off, and then finally I just never went back, and I lost everything that I had in it.

Chad Jordan: You had a house, so ...

Veronica Jordan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Lost it too. It was a nice house. I was renting it, but I had decided that I was going to try and move, so I packed up all my stuff and was hardly ever there. I had let some other friends of mine, that were using, stay there, while I was staying in town, because it was easier to get to drugs. They pretty started trashing it, and using it as a trap house, which is what happens, so I get kicked out of there. I put all of my stuff in a U-Haul and one of my friends was going to drive it up to Portland, took off with it for three days, and then they got arrested driving it, so then all my stuff was put in a-

Chad Jordan: Impounded.

Veronica Jordan: Impounded, and then put in a U-Haul storage. It was some obscene amount of $500-a-month payments or stuff to keep it going, and it was everything. So I had a car. I had a car and I had a lot of friends, I had a lot of "using-friends."

Chad Jordan: A car with a car seat in it.

Veronica Jordan: A car with a car seat in it. Yep.

Chad Jordan: With a little boy.

Veronica Jordan: And a little boy, yup. At one point in time, things got really bad there, and I didn't really have any place to go, so I asked one of my cousins up in Portland to watch him for a weekend, and I left him there for three months.

Chad Jordan: Because the time got away from you or-

Veronica Jordan: Yup. Yup. Yup. Literally three months feels like three days.

Chad Jordan: And they weren't reaching out?

Veronica Jordan: Nope. They weren't going to be like-

Chad Jordan: They weren't going to be like, "You need to take him back."

Veronica Jordan: I got wind that they were going to go to Children's Services, and ask for some type of custody, or adoption, or something like that, and so-

Chad Jordan: Not to be cruel, but to keep him safe.

Veronica Jordan: No, to keep him safe, and so once I got wind of it, I immediately drove up to Portland and took him, and took him back to the coast. I finally found a friend who would watch him a lot.

Chad Jordan: A friend that was clean?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Jordan: Okay.

Veronica Jordan: So she watched him a lot and-

Chad Jordan: Did she know you were struggling?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. She knew I was struggling. She did her best.

Chad Jordan: Oh yeah, I'm not judging. I'm saying she probably bailed you out with ... you could still be a mom as much as you could in your mind.

Veronica Jordan: She knew I was struggling. So in the three months that my son was gone, I didn't really have anywhere to go. I still got loaded.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, how are you paying for this?

Veronica Jordan: Selling my body.

Chad Jordan: Yeah. And how about, have you been arrested at this point?

Veronica Jordan: Nope.

Chad Jordan: So in your mind, are you like, "I'm getting away with this?"

Veronica Jordan: Yup. Yup. Lincoln City's a really small town. It's a seven-mile town. I would literally get up and go for a walk in the morning, and I would ... it's a small town, has maybe 10, 20 police officers, they'd be around in the morning, I'd stop and talk to them, being really loaded. I'm sure they probably went, "I wish I could arrest you right now, but I don't have anything to bring you in on." If you've ever been to ... most places have beach access bathrooms, so there's six in Lincoln City, so every night I would just pick one, and I would lock myself in the bathroom, and sleep on the bathroom floor.

Chad Jordan: At what point do you go, "This is not what I want?" How do you get out of this?

Veronica Jordan: When I got Jayden back, I was like, "I have to do something different, I can't live in bathrooms with Jayden." I had a friend who was able to get by. She was an older lady. She was using, but she wasn't ... she had been a police officer, I know that sounds really weird. She had been a police officer for 25 years, so she knew how to really work the system, and she had a spare room. She said, "Give me all your food stamps for the month," and at that time, I think I had TANF, which was temporary assistance for needy families.

Veronica Jordan: I had $200, so she said, "Give me all your TANF, and give me all your food stamps, and you can live here," so I lived there with here. I had a new boyfriend who was my dealer, so in my little loaded mind, I had it made. My daughter really missed me, so I went and picked her up, and she came back and lived at this house. Which was just a hot mess, because it was me and three other IV-using drug addicts, and my two kids, and it was really-

Chad Jordan: Your middle son, are you seeing him at this point at all?

Veronica Jordan: No.

Chad Jordan: Dad's like, "Over my dead body."

Veronica Jordan: Pretty much. Pretty much. I lived there for probably about a year, maybe a little less. It was really terrifying every day, because I felt like I was always picking up everybody's stuff, so that my kids didn't find it.

Chad Jordan: Jayden's learning to walk at this point, and crawling, and all that stuff.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. He's three by now.

Chad Jordan: Okay, so a toddler in a drug den, essentially, is what you-

Veronica Jordan: Pretty much, and my daughter was about 11, 12. I had a crazy idea when I was watching the news one night. I was watching this special report on squatters. You know what a squatter is, right?

Chad Jordan: Yeah, of course.

Veronica Jordan: They go to somebody else's house. I watched this news report about these people and all these other scams, and they talked about these rent scams, and that people were paying to rent places on Craigslist, and then coming to their house that they had paid to rent, and then nobody was there, they're like, "No." So I thought, what happens to these people that they paid all this money? They're just a victim. So I cased a house, and I made a fake lease, and I moved in and I squatted, and when the cops came knocking at my door, I said, "What do you mean? I paid for this all on Craigslist." Didn't work. They said, "Oh, okay." then they shut the door ... because I just had to get out of that house, and I didn't care what it too.

Chad Jordan: Did you have the kids?

Veronica Jordan: I had the kids.

Chad Jordan: Okay. How long are you in that house?

Veronica Jordan: Oh, a week. We were in there a whole week. I gave the cops story, and they-

Chad Jordan: Your fake story.

Veronica Jordan: My fake story. They left. They came back about 10 minutes later.

Chad Jordan: With a Search Warrant, or what did they have?

Veronica Jordan: No, no. Officer [Mills 00:43:25]-

Chad Jordan: The same one that-

Veronica Jordan: I talked to her often, yeah. I talked to her often. Really nice lady. She came in. She said, "Can I come in?" I said, "Yeah." She sat down, and she looked at me, and she said, "I talked to the owners of this house, so do you want to tell me the truth, or do you want to continue to lie?" If you have ever carried a lie, or carried so much pain and regret, and had that moment where you just let it out, and everything lifted, in my program, you call that surrender, I surrendered. I said, "I want to tell you the truth." I let it all go. I let it all go. I told everything.

Chad Jordan: Does it help that she's a female? One that you could-

Veronica Jordan: No.

Chad Jordan: It wouldn't've mattered whoever, whatever officer they sent?

Veronica Jordan: It wouldn't've of mattered. I mean at that point, they had called pretty much the whole police squad, so there was 16 cops going around.

Chad Jordan: Are your kids in the house when this all unfolding?

Veronica Jordan: [Jasmine 00:44:34] is at her friend's house at a sleepover. Jayden is there. I will give hats off to Lincoln City Police Department, because they took Jayden outside, and they played ball with him, and kept him occupied until Children's Services could come, and take him up to my mom's, because I was getting arrested.

Chad Jordan: For the first time, unbelievably, but for the first time.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah.

Chad Jordan: Are you high at this time?

Veronica Jordan: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I'm very high. I remember driving over in the police car, and just not knowing what was going to happen.

Chad Jordan: Did they cuff you?

Veronica Jordan: They did.

Chad Jordan: Did Jayden see?

Veronica Jordan: No. They made sure he didn't see. We did stop by my ... we had to go by where my daughter was, and she saw me handcuffed and in the cop car.

Chad Jordan: Oh, bummer.

Veronica Jordan: She was pretty upset about that.

Chad Jordan: Especially because she's old enough to put the pieces together. Jayden, he would've ...

Veronica Jordan: And she was at a sleepover at the most popular girl's ... "Oh, here's my mom in a cop car. Hey mom."

Chad Jordan: Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry to hear that.

Veronica Jordan: It's okay. I went to jail. I was probably in there a good week and a half before you got to see a lawyer. It's not anything that happens quickly, especially in Lincoln County.

Chad Jordan: But that must've been a week and a half of hell, in terms of what you're coming off.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was.

Chad Jordan: Did they give you methadone ...

Veronica Jordan: No.

Chad Jordan: I mean you got nothing to help?

Veronica Jordan: In all honestly, methadone's more for heroine. With meth, basically you just need to eat and sleep it off. I slept for the first three days I was in there, because I'd been up for, I think, probably ... I think that was my 23-day run. I had maybe taken a couple 15-minute naps, but I had been up for 23 days. By the time they arrested me, I was 98 pounds. I looked like a skeleton. I was extremely malnourished. I was so dehydrated, to the point where I couldn't even inject myself anymore, so I had pin needles, and pushes, and bruises and everything all over my arms and my legs. I still carry a good scar.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, I see it.

Veronica Jordan: But I was definitely ready. Once the meth fog had cleared, all I could think about was, what did I just do to my life? I remember feeling like, I started doing this-

Chad Jordan: How many years?

Veronica Jordan: Almost three and a half. It had been three and a half. Three and a half years of not taking care of anything, of letting everything I had fall apart, now losing all three of my kids, my house, my car, my career, my self-respect, my dignity, any feeling of being a human being, just really caught up on all the things I was supposed to be and I should've been, based on where I came from, because I came from a good family. I had a two-parent household, and I went to church two times a week, and I was in a professional choir. I toured in Australia. I was an exchange student in Japan. I did all these great things, and I made some bad choices based on my codependent behavior, and what I thought was love.

Veronica Jordan: So I'm in jail. Some of the other girls are talking about a program called drug court, so I talked to my lawyer, and he says, "Well you're looking at felony charges, so you don't qualify for drug court." And he says, "But, you qualify for HOPE court." I said, "What's HOPE court?" And he said, "It's the same thing as drug court, but with drug court, when you complete it, they erase your charges. With HOPE court, you take your charges off the bat, and that's what it is, and you will have them the rest of your life. If you do it, and you complete it, then you'll be on some type of probation or a court supervision, and you will just live with the fact that you're going to have a felony on your record the rest of your life. Or you can go to prison for 10 years. You pick."

Chad Jordan: Then by that time, your kids are grown up, and they're out of the house, at least two of them.

Veronica Jordan: Right. The lady came to interview me for it, and I knew that I was really serious, and I wanted to show them that I was serious, so when she came to interview me for it, I brought her interview questions, because I wanted to know what I was getting into. I wanted to make sure that I could be successful at it, that I was going to have the support that I needed at it, because I had been ready to quit and stop for a long time. I just didn't know how to do it, and I didn't have the support to do it. At this point, I didn't know about any outside community help. I didn't know about Celebrate Recovery, or Narcotics Anonymous, or Alcoholics Anonymous. I didn't even understand what treatment was.

Chad Jordan: Because you had never tried to stop before.

Veronica Jordan: I had never tried to stop before.

Chad Jordan: So you're not one of these that dabbled, and got back, and slipped and fell off the wagon, and all that. You just went on this three-and-a-half year tear, and never looked back.

Veronica Jordan: And destroyed my whole life in the process, so they let me sit in jail for three months. Usually when they accept you, it's within 30 days. The DA and my lawyer fought for that three months, because my lawyer was like, "This woman will be successful at it. This woman needs it." And the DA was more like, "Okay, we understand that she was on drugs, but she did a lot of things that are probably not really congruent."

Chad Jordan: What did your lawyer seen in you that made him think ...

Veronica Jordan: I don't know. I mean it was the lawyer, and then the HOPE court administrator, her name is [Meagan 00:51:00], and I still talk to her today. I'm still the only, to this day, the only person that has ever brought interview questions to that interview. It's not a very big program. Drug court is really big, and in Lincoln county, HOPE court, not so much. They only have about 30 spots per year.

Chad Jordan: How long is the program?

Veronica Jordan: It is a year long. It's actually 16 months.

Chad Jordan: 16 months out jail, or-

Veronica Jordan: Right. So I got accepted into that. I got sentenced. The same day I got sentenced, I got released. What HOPE court is, is it is court-supervised treatment, so I had 35 hours of recovery that I was required to do a week. I had to go to four outside groups. I had to go to ... one, two, three, I had to go to four counseling or group therapy, through Reconnections Counseling, that were three to four hours long, and then I had to find a sponsor. I went all in. I went all in. I went feet-first. I said, "I'm ready. I'm going to do it." I know in the beginning, I didn't have a car. I lived two miles away from where it was. I remember the first day that I had to go to the treatment. I remember it was raining, and I couldn't find a ride, so I walked three and a half miles, in the rain, at the coast. They released-

Chad Jordan: What month was it-

Veronica Jordan: February.

Chad Jordan: Oh my gosh.

Veronica Jordan: So it was freezing, and I remember getting there, and I was 20 minutes late, and I remember being soaking wet, and looking at all these people that I didn't know, and the guy Larry, going, "Well, you're late. You can't be here if you're late." And I remember everybody going, "Oh come on Larry. Just let her go. She walked the ... " I made some really, really good friendships, and I learned really quickly, and I had known how to do, if you do what's more than expected of you, you get that extra help that you need, and you get things out of it.

Veronica Jordan: They required me to go to four, I went to five, and then when I moved onto ... you did that for the first ... it's one, two, three, one, two, three phases, so I did that for the first phase, which was I think four and a half months. Then when they said, "Okay, now you just have to go to two of these three-hour classes," I still went to four. I embellished myself. I found a church and rebuilt my relationship with Jesus Christ and God. I was really mad at God, really, really mad at God for a long time, and I was able to rebuild my whole structure of how I felt about God.

Chad Jordan: What was the anger? "Why did you let this happen to me?"

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. I think all the normal. I got re-baptized when I turned a year clean. I got baptized in the Pacific Ocean.

Chad Jordan: That's cold up here.

Veronica Jordan: You know.

Chad Jordan: It's not Hawaii, the Pacific Ocean.

Veronica Jordan: It was funny, it was cold, but it was actually two degrees warmer than any other where on the coast, where I got baptized. So in phase three of the program ...

Chad Jordan: And this wasn't a faith-based program, you were in right? The HOPE court.

Veronica Jordan: Nope, this was all supervised by the court, although I did go to Celebrate Recovery two times a week, and I went to Narcotics Anonymous, which is where I-

Chad Jordan: Because you're not just doing one, you're doing, like you said, you're doing more than enough.

Veronica Jordan: I'm doing them all. When I graduated, my pack was, everybody could see it, my pack was five or six inches long, because I had to get these slips signed. In the meetings, we say, "A nudge from the judge, and a higher power slip," right. In phase three they said, "Okay, well you have to get a job," and I said, "I'm not going to get a job here. I'm not going to stay here. Once I graduate this, I'm going to move back home with my parents, and I'm going to try and reboot my life." I fought with them for a couple of weeks on it, and then finally they went, "Okay, well-"

Chad Jordan: Because they wanted you to stay local, right?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. They wanted me-

Chad Jordan: Keep an eye on you.

Veronica Jordan: They wanted me to be a mentor, because I was being so successful at it. They said, "All right, why don't you just do job search?" I said, "Okay," and they said, "Do you know anything you want to do?" I said, "Yeah, I want to go back and cut hair," so the Lincoln County probation officer paid to reinstate my license, because I had let it lapse.

Chad Jordan: Wow.

Veronica Jordan: I know, hats off to them.

Chad Jordan: Because you didn't have the money at the time, right?

Veronica Jordan: I did not have the money at the time.

Chad Jordan: And you had a felony record.

Veronica Jordan: And I had a felony record, and I was really provided on the generosity of a lot of the people in the program for a good six months or three months of my recovery. When I was cleaning up, I was homeless. It was summer, but every day, someone from the program came and paid my campsite. Every day, somebody came, like clockwork. "It's all right. Just stay clean. Go one more day." It was just me and Jayden and Jasmine, and we were just ... because I got-

Chad Jordan: Are you literally camping?

Veronica Jordan: Literally camping.

Chad Jordan: What do you have? Do you have a tent?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. A tent, and everybody brought me just random camping supplies, and said, "We're just going to make it work." By the phase three, I had gotten a new place through somebody I had met a church. He gave it to me at half the price, what I could afford from my TANF. They had me go to these work programs, and the lady said, "What do you want to do?" I said, "I want to do something different," and she goes, "Okay." She said, "What do you want to do?" I said, "I want to work at Sport Clips." She said, "What's Sport Clips?" I said, "I think it's just men's hair."

Chad Jordan: Now did you say, "Sport Clips?" Or when you told her, did you say, "Sports Clips?" Let's be-

Veronica Jordan: I said, "Sport Clips."

Chad Jordan: Okay. All right.

Veronica Jordan: One Sport, two Clips.

Chad Jordan: Okay. So how did you hear about it? Why did you say, "I want to go to Sport Clips?"

Veronica Jordan: In all honesty, I've racked my brain for almost four years, and wondered, "Did I see it in a comercial? Did somebody tell me it'd be a good idea?" I honestly don't know. I just, out of my mouth, said, "I'm going to work for Sport Clips. That's what I'm going to do." There was no changing my mind.

Chad Jordan: I don't know who to give a shout out to, the marketing department, the recruiting department, let's say everybody. Everybody did their job.

Veronica Jordan: But from that point on, there was no telling me any different. I went to the workplace, and they said, "Well why don't you just apply at other places so that you don't have all your eggs in one basket?" I said, "No. I'm going to work for Sport Clips," so I applied, and I talked to Ashley, who used to be the manager, and I told her, "I'm moving up there in two months."

Chad Jordan: And where is it? Is Oregon City? Is that-

Veronica Jordan: Oregon City. Yeah, that's where my parents lived, and she said, "Okay, well call me when you come." Just to be safe, because they pushed me, I set up actually five interviews, at five different Sport Clips, in the Portland area. So I graduated the program. Lots of tears, because I had to say, "Goodbye," to all these relationships I had built. They really wanted me to stay, and I had build tons of relationships. I moved up here. I went to all five interviews, and I told each of the managers a little bit of story. I just made it really clear, "I need to go to church on Sunday, and I have to be able to go to these meetings." Ashley, she understood my struggle, and I felt from her, the understanding of how important it was for me, when I explained it to her, so that's where I decided to go.

Chad Jordan: That is the Ashley ... I met her today, right?

Veronica Jordan: You did, yeah. Ashley Jones. Shout out to Ashley Jones.

Chad Jordan: She the one who made the Mountain Dew brownies?

Veronica Jordan: No, that was Wendy.

Chad Jordan: That was Wendy, okay. All right.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah, so I landed it there.

Chad Jordan: Felony and all.

Veronica Jordan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Jordan: I mean it's not like you put on big bold letter, on the interview, or the application, "I have a felony," but they can found that out, right?

Veronica Jordan: They can find that out.

Chad Jordan: It's not like you can cover that up.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. No, they can find that out.

Chad Jordan: So do you bring that up to them, or you just leave it, and not even mention it?

Veronica Jordan: I mean my team leaders and my manager are aware.

Chad Jordan: And were when they were hiring you?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah.

Chad Jordan: Okay. I'm interested to find that out. Obviously now I know who you are, how great you are, all that, but at the time, nobody knew you. I mean you were in another whole city, and been through all this. Okay.

Veronica Jordan: So I had, what? 14 months clean when I started working there. I just immediately got involved in a bunch of meetings, and found myself truly at home, right. Some of the basic principles that I learned in recovery was to do what's right, even when nobody's looking, treat other people the way that they want to be treated.

Chad Jordan: If you said, "Do your best," then I'm going to ...

Veronica Jordan: And do your best, right. With some of the things that I got taught really early on in recovery, about what it looks like to have integrity, and what it looks like to be committed, and what it looks like to be passionate about something, when I started working for this company, it was like all the stars came aligned, and somebody said, "Ahhh."

Chad Jordan: Right, a shaft of light comes down from heaven."

Veronica Jordan: Yeah, I mean it was absolutely amazing, and I just fit right in. I couldn't cut men's hair worth a crap, I'll tell you that, sorry for the language, but Ashley is-

Chad Jordan: I've heard worse on this podcast.

Veronica Jordan: Ashley is the-

Chad Jordan: Might've said worse myself.

Veronica Jordan: ... I tell you what hats off to that woman, because I must've tried her patience sometimes, because I just wanted to go, and I just wanted to do it, but I couldn't do it, and she was so patient, and so encouraging.

Chad Jordan: Obviously, everybody knows, I'm not a stylist. They would never trust me with sheers and clippers and everything, but what's the pivot? What's the challenge from going and doing women's your whole life, to men's hair? Why was that such a hurdle?

Veronica Jordan: Well two reasons. Number one, when you cut a little bit off women's hair, they freak out, if it's even just a hair more. With men, they'll sit in your chair, and they'll go, "I want a zero on the sides," and you'll be like, "Are you sure? That's all your hair," so you get very used to this culture of women, and how they really react to their hair, versus a man, who's like, "It'll grow back. Just take it off." There's a lot of timidness, and then I had done perms and colors and, "Oh sweetie, my husband's here. Can you give him a little a scissor cut?" I had never done any fades. I have never used a blending comb, I'm like, "What is this thing?" I did not understand, and so she was very patient with me. I loved coming to class, and I learned so much.

Chad Jordan: Are we filming this in a class where you learned to cut men's hair, essentially?

Veronica Jordan: We are filming this in the class where I learned how to cut men's hair.

Chad Jordan: All right, that's cool.

Veronica Jordan: It is cool.

Chad Jordan: Full circle.

Veronica Jordan: It is cool full circle. Yeah.

Chad Jordan: How long before you really start to flourish at Sport Clips?

Veronica Jordan: Ooh. Well let's see. I got promoted to Assistant Manager.

Chad Jordan: A year in? What?

Veronica Jordan: It was ... yeah, just a little over a year. It was in, I think, 2017. Yeah, 2017. I had started talking to Jayden's dad again.

Chad Jordan: Talking, like ...

Veronica Jordan: Talking. Trying to get him to get off whatever he was off, to try and be something for his son.

Chad Jordan: Okay, but you're not looking to reconnect.

Veronica Jordan: No.

Chad Jordan: Okay.

Veronica Jordan: And then he got in a really bad accident. He got ran over and a half semi truck stopped on his chest, and he almost died.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, I mean how is it almost died when that's-

Veronica Jordan: He almost died. He was in critical care for a little bit, and I lost it, and I relapsed.

Chad Jordan: Really?

Veronica Jordan: After all that success.

Chad Jordan: No way.

Veronica Jordan: And almost three years and ...

Chad Jordan: How? How? How? Did you know where to go to find ...

Veronica Jordan: I had somebody that I had met, sadly at work. She's no longer with us. I made that really bad choice. It happened a couple more times, and I just hid it. On the third time, when it came out, I looked myself straight in the mirror, and I said, "I am not going to do this to my life again. I'm not. I'm not," and I walked my happy butt into my car, down to the treatment center that's here in Oregon City, and I said, "Listen. This happened. I'm not okay with it. I need to essentially put myself back in HOPE court, without the court." The lady looked at me like I was crazy. She's like, "You don't need really treatment. You already went through huge treatment."

Chad Jordan: Yeah, you know what to do.

Veronica Jordan: "You had a long piece of clean time. You just ... " and I said, "No. I need accountability. This is what I need." I let myself truly embrace everything, because I think for a long time, I was on a pink, and everybody was like, "You're doing so great," and "You did so great," and "You did this," and I had all this accountability."

Chad Jordan: Accolades and yeah.

Veronica Jordan: Now, on January 1st, I'll have 18 months clean again.

Chad Jordan: Awesome.

Veronica Jordan: It's been such a different experience, because I think about everything that's happened in the last 18 months, right. There was no, "If you don't do this, then you're going to do this." I was purely me going, "This is what I want for the rest of my life," right. And we found that lump in my neck, and that was really scary, and I made it through that. Then they decided to promote me, and I was just totally in shock. I've just been-

Chad Jordan: When did the promotion happen? When'd you become manager?

Veronica Jordan: That happened last January. My last January.

Chad Jordan: So we're coming up on a year of that, right.

Veronica Jordan: Right.

Chad Jordan: I hope there's some fun celebration planned. All right, I might have to figure something out. I'll figure something out. January what?

Veronica Jordan: Let's see. Well I went to Disney World the first week of January, so probably ... and then they asked me right before I left, and when I came back I took over, so I think probably around the 15th.

Chad Jordan: Okay, I got to set a calendar reminder for myself.

Veronica Jordan: I guess for me, everything that has just happened this year has just been so amazing, and the support that I've gotten from my team, from my team leaders. I've shared my story with my coaches, with other people here, and I think the biggest takeaway that I get is we all have our stories. I think for a really long time, I got super hung up thinking I had just failed. I failed at what I was supposed to be, who I was supposed to be. Then I think at one point in time, over this last year, I realized that's not how you measure a person. You don't measure a person on how they failed. Everybody fails at who you were supposed to be. Everybody does. It's how you accept who you are that matters, right. So for me, I just feel so blessed that I get all these opportunities. That I get to be here today. I have custody of all three of my kids.

Chad Jordan: Wow. I was going to about that. Wow.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. I have custody of all three of my kids. I don't everything perfectly.

Chad Jordan: Hey. Neither do they.

Veronica Jordan: Nobody ever does anything perfectly.

Chad Jordan: You got teenagers, I got teenagers. We know. They're not perfect.

Veronica Jordan: I mean I have a strong relationship with my kids. I have a strong relationship with my boyfriend, who's got ... oh gosh, he just celebrated six years.

Chad Jordan: Wow. Awesome. So there's accountability there.

Veronica Jordan: Yeah. Accountability there, and I have an epic sponsor, and lots of friends, and I have the most excellent coworkers. I couldn't ask for more, because they're still so teachable. I try to make work fun. We do a pep rallies every month, and we do contests every week, and we do everything we can to just keep each other going, and just stay positive and do what we can. They're super supportive of my goals, and I try to be supportive of theirs.

Chad Jordan: What is ... and then I've got to comment, and then we'll get to our fun questions.

Veronica Jordan: Sure.

Chad Jordan: So there's people listening to this who, unfortunately they may be battling addiction right now, maybe they're in a abusive relationship, or some other dark period of their life, so what encouraging advice could you pass along to them to help them get to a better place?

Veronica Jordan: Just don't give up. Just don't give up, no matter what. That's one of my favorite things to say. No matter what, just keep going. Know that the help is always there, and just don't be afraid to reach out, even when it's hard, and don't be afraid to just go through that door. There's so many resources. When I got clean the first time, I was amazed at how many people I had on my side, because I thought that I didn't have anybody. I had a few relationships that I had to mend, and it took time, but I mean I have solid relationships now.

Chad Jordan: Well if your part of Sport Clips and you're listening to this, we have the Cut it Out program, that helps those that are in abusive relationships, and helps them get out of those and get support, so we want to make sure that you check into that. One of things that I'll comment on, and then we'll get to your questions, is you showed me your scar. I think of this, not to get too spiritual or anything, but I like listening to gospel music and worship music and stuff, and there's a group called Leeland that has a new album out, it's a worship album. In the song, they talk about meeting Jesus for the first time, and saying to Jesus, "Show me your scars," and Jesus says, "I'll show you my scars, now show me yours." Getting a chance to show everything that's imperfect about us, but that he's healed. It looks like you're experiencing healing, and so I'm so proud of you. Man if you have blown it, we wouldn't be here today.

Veronica Jordan: I know.

Chad Jordan: You did it. This is amazing, and I so appreciate getting the opportunity to sit down and really celebrate. You mentioned the group Celebrate Recovery, but it is something worth celebrating, the fact that you get to have this relationship with your kids, and your team members, and your team leaders, and those of us at Sport Clips. I know there are bigger stages for you to be on, than even Huddle, and bigger platforms for you that are out there, so I can't wait to see all of that unfold. Here's what I'd like to do. I've got my 10 fun questions at the end, and for the first time ever, you brought questions to HOPE court or whatever, you'd said before we started recording that you have some questions for me.

Veronica Jordan: Yes,

Chad Jordan: Okay, so here's what we do. Do you need to ask yours all in a row, or can we-

Veronica Jordan: No.

Chad Jordan: I got 10 questions. I'm going to as two at a time, and then you can go in and out. Actually, you should probably lead, so that my last two ... oh no, I know what I'll do. I'll start off with two questions for you. Number one, which super power would you most like to have?

Veronica Jordan: Man, every time you ask this to somebody else, I'm like, "I don't even know."

Chad Jordan: Yeah, "Don't ask me that one, Chad."

Veronica Jordan: I don't even know. I would like to be super strong.

Chad Jordan: Okay. Super strength.

Veronica Jordan: Super strength.

Chad Jordan: Like the Incredible Hulk.

Veronica Jordan: Like Mr. Incredible.

Chad Jordan: Oh yeah, okay. That's a more relatable ...

Veronica Jordan: I'm a Disney person.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, you are. That's right. I'm looking forward to your karaoke. All right. Give me, what's one of your nick names?

Veronica Jordan: Vern.

Chad Jordan: Vern? Okay. You like it?

Veronica Jordan: Eh.

Chad Jordan: Okay. All right. I won't call you that, then. Now it's your turn. What's one of your questions?

Veronica Jordan: Let's see. What is your least favorite mode of transportation? Because you travel a lot.

Chad Jordan: Yeah. You know what? I'll say rental cars.

Veronica Jordan: Rental cars?

Chad Jordan: I hate driving myself, and especially from Seattle to Eugene, Oregon, in the rain, back up to Portland at night, all right. That is my least favorite mode of transportation.

Veronica Jordan: I'm glad you enjoyed the BMW.

Chad Jordan: Yes. Uh-huh (affirmative). Okay, my turn. Other than where you live now, where else in the world would you most like to live?

Veronica Jordan: Disney Land.

Chad Jordan: Disney Land? Have you been to the new Star Wars Land?

Veronica Jordan: Yes.

Chad Jordan: Okay. I haven't yet.

Veronica Jordan: We went over the summer.

Chad Jordan: Do you have any pets?

Veronica Jordan: I do.

Chad Jordan: Okay. What is your favorite pet's name?

Veronica Jordan: I only have one pet.

Chad Jordan: Okay, well it could be favorite pet of all time. The one you've ever had-

Veronica Jordan: Max.

Chad Jordan: Max?

Veronica Jordan: Yeah.

Chad Jordan: What was Max?

Veronica Jordan: Max was my Siamese cat. He live with me a long time.

Chad Jordan: Okay, your turn.

Veronica Jordan: Let's see. What is your favorite vacation spot?

Chad Jordan: Okay. Every summer, and it's because of who I go with, every summer my family, we go to Oahu, my wife and my three kids, and we stay with one of my college buddies, who lived out there. They live a block from the beach. It's got our favorite beach in the world there, and we just go, and my son boogie boards, and my daughters fight. Then we have shave from Island Snow, is the name of it. President Obama went there a bunch, so they have his pictures all over. So anyways, that's my favorite vacation spot. All right. Number five for you, what ... shoot, okay you got to answer. It's what is your hidden talent? This, I'm wearing a talent of yours that is not hidden, we all know about it, so what's a hidden talent of yours?

Veronica Jordan: Boy. I don't know if I really have any hidden talents. I don't know. I'm pretty creative all the way around. I like to draw. I like to paint.

Chad Jordan: Like what?

Veronica Jordan: And I can sing.

Chad Jordan: You can sing?

Veronica Jordan: Yes.

Chad Jordan: Oh yeah, because of the choir, and that whole ... okay. All right. Well that's one we've not discovered yet. Well except for the karaoke videos. Okay, you can ask one now.

Veronica Jordan: Okay, when things break, do you prefer to fix them or replace them? I know.

Chad Jordan: Replace them. I am not a fixer. I am not a handyman at all. No way. I will pay a premium to either replace it, or have it fixed, but I will not do it myself.

Veronica Jordan: I will do it myself.

Chad Jordan: Okay. What sound or noise do you love?

Veronica Jordan: Laughter.

Chad Jordan: Sound or noise do you hate?

Veronica Jordan: Chalkboard.

Chad Jordan: Chalkboard. Like nails on the chalk ... oh, okay.

Veronica Jordan: Don't do it.

Chad Jordan: This is a whiteboard, so it wouldn't work.

Veronica Jordan: I know it's a whiteboard and I'm glad.

Chad Jordan: I can't get you. Okay, your next question.

Veronica Jordan: Okay, what chore do you dislike doing the most?

Chad Jordan: Okay, I hate cleaning the garage, and my kids destroy it at least once a year, and then I have to go reorganize it, and it is ... the whole time I'm doing it, I'm ... I love my kids to death, but in that moment, I'm rethinking my life decisions on why did I have three kids? Why did I have them at the time of life I had them? Because right now if I didn't have them, there would not be this mess in my garage all over again.

Veronica Jordan: How old are your kids?

Chad Jordan: 15, 13 and 11.

Veronica Jordan: Oh, okay, so pretty close to what mine are.

Chad Jordan: Yeah. All right, my next question. Obviously at some point Hollywood's going to make a movie based on the story of your life. What actress do you want them to pick to play your role?

Veronica Jordan: I've given this one a lot of thought, and I just want you to know it's not going to be Hollywood, it's going to be a Disney movie, and I think Marisa Tomei should be the voice, but I don't know what kind of character it would be. Some type of struggles.

Chad Jordan: Yeah, well some princess. Okay, and what's title of the movie?

Veronica Jordan: No Matter What.

Chad Jordan: No Matter What. I love it.

Veronica Jordan: No Matter What.

Chad Jordan: Okay, you get your last question, then I'll ask my last question.

Veronica Jordan: Okay. Who give you courage to try something new?

Chad Jordan: Oh, my wife. Yes. Obviously you see it. I'm on social media a lot. I travel a lot, okay, yeah, all that. Do you know who's not? My wife, but behind the scenes, she's the one who is encouraging me, and keeping this whole thing going. At any moment, she could say, "All right, let's pull the plug. You don't need to me doing that anymore," and I would stop, but she's a wonderful woman, and yes, who allows me to be me. You can imagine having to put up with this guy for the last 19 and a half years.

Veronica Jordan: My boyfriend puts up with me.

Chad Jordan: It's pretty amazing. All right, last question, and then we'll end this one. This has been amazing by the way, so thank you for sharing everything that you've shared today, and everything that you've survived today. This is part of our Survive and Advance series, because you're a survivor, and you have advanced. If heaven indeed exists, what do you hope to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

Veronica Jordan: "Thanks for not coming early. You came on time."

Chad Jordan: I love it,

Veronica Jordan: Just because how many times I put myself near death.

Chad Jordan: Right. Right. Yes. You should be thanking Him, you know what I'm saying? "Thank you for not making me come early, and giving me all those extra chances, and all that."

Veronica Jordan: We're always right where we need to be, and right now where I need to be is just here, and available, and like Britney says, "Always say yes," and I always like to say, "My best ability is my availability," so if there's anybody out there who's struggling, find me on Facebook. Hit me up. Talk to me.

Chad Jordan: And Instagram. You're on Instagram too.

Veronica Jordan: And on Instagram too. I'm always down for more friends and to help encourage, and help people survive.

Chad Jordan: Well you've had a amazing story, but I just want to pass along the best is yet to come for you, and because of you. So thanks everybody for tuning in. Obviously thanks to Veronica Jordan. I've already said, "She's a sister from another mister," for me, and this is the story of Sport Clips, people like you, so thanks for sharing it with up.

Veronica Jordan: Thank you.

Chad Jordan: Thanks everybody. Tune in next week for another episode.